New car time - Birkin

Southwest Montana SCCA discussions for the 2005 season.
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DaveMk1
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New car time - Birkin

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:01 pm

So now I've gone and done it. I just commited to buying a Birkin 7. I wish I could post of photo of it here. Birkin and Caterham are both companies that are officailly licenced by Lotus to make a Seven continuation series. Birkins happen to fit tall bastards like myself better than Caterhams due to the fact that they have an adjustable pedal box.

It's a modern version of a Lotus 7. It weighs 1300lbs and in it's current state of tune puts out about 150hp. It's a 1999 Birkin S3 and I'm buying it from the importer. I might have him change out the head to give it some more power..........165-175HP. Even in it's "slow" state it only pushes 8.7lbs/HP which should make for a sub 5 second 0-60 time. It will do 60 - 0 in 100 feet.

One of the big factors for me in getting a new toy car has been the cost/weight ratio. As you all know I was going to get an Elise but couldn't swing the cost in the end. A Birkin is about 1/2 the cost of a used Elise so I can swing it.

The down side of the car it's it's just a crude - basic design. It has a pop up tent that you erect on top of the car for bad weather, no radio, no anything. It's a fully commited no compromise sports car. I don't see myself doing any trans-continental trips anytime soon in it.

You can see cars like it at the link below if you are interested.

http://www.texasmotorworks7.com/racoca1.html


With any luck I should have it in my dirty lil'hands late February.I wonder what SCCA class it will put me in?

Wish me luck and stay by your monitors 24/7 for news updates.

Dave

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Postby fastneons » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:27 pm

Good luck Dave, sounds cool. I would think SM for a class, but I am probably wrong.
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Postby RayAR » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 pm

Hey Dave, What engine is in it?

Last years classing rules put the Lotus 7 in CS, ASP or DP but thats not for a replica. Lotus is on the exclude list for SM and SM2 so I am sure that a replica wouldn't be allowed there either. Because it is a replica my best guess would be DM.
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Postby JoeE » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:06 am

:shock: Holy crap Dave, that is so cool!

I have always secretly lusted for a 7 replica. I just dig the simplicity and rawness of them.
Can't wait to see it. :)
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Postby rkaiser » Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:45 am

Cool Dave! Do you have to build it? You know, you need to get a pair of these ->
Image
Now that would be cool!

Of course you will need this for the rainy days :)

Image

Can't wait to see it in action! What color will it be and what choices do you have for wheels?
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Postby RayAR » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:59 pm

RayAR wrote:Hey Dave, What engine is in it?



Looks like all of the Birkins on that page are powered by Ford Zetecs so I am assuming thats what yours will be powered by, They are getting a very impressive 220 Horsepower out of some of those!!!!!! WOW. When I was looking into building an MR2, A good streetable 4AGE with a little head work and mild cams would put out about 160 HP, a very good High Compression 4AGE with with ported heads and decent cams would be lucky to see 195 HP and it takes a Formula Atlantic 4AGE to make 220 HP. I have a feeling that the Zetec is a bit bigger then the 1.6 liter 4AGE Toyota engine so they are probably capable of about the same power per cubic inch.

BTW, the more I look at last years rules I have become convinced that you would be in DM. Relicas are not legal in Stock, SP or SM and you are to light for any of the prepared classes. Looks like 1300 lbs puts you right in DM. Better get some slicks :)
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Postby DaveMk1 » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:34 pm

You are correct Mr. Ray. It's powered by a stock Zetec with dual Weber DCOEs. I'm strongly considering having the head changed out to a flowed head with higher compression that should give about 170hp. The guy selling me the car stocks the heads and installs them for a reasonable price so I might go that route. But even with the stock motor it should be quick.

The class thing is funny. I asked what class I might be in and yet I have no idea what any of those letters mean........and not to sound like a jerk but it really doesn't matter too much to me. I like to drive my best and I always shoot for the best time of the day regardless of what I drive.

As for tires...........the car has a brand new set of Toyo Proxis right now so I'll run those and see how they are. I'm excited to have a car with 15" wheels so I'll have a tire choice for the first time. There's not much out there in 13".

By the way.........the chick in the shower cap makes me feel funny down there.

Later,

Dave
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Postby RayAR » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:35 pm

DaveMk1 wrote:The class thing is funny. I asked what class I might be in and yet I have no idea what any of those letters mean........and not to sound like a jerk but it really doesn't matter too much to me. I like to drive my best and I always shoot for the best time of the day regardless of what I drive.


Your right, It dosen't matter locally but if you go to divisionals you will need to know.

2006 rules download http://scca.com/_filelibrary/File/2006_solo_rules.pdf

You should be able to figure it out what class you are in with this.
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Postby fastneons » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:10 pm

Your right, It dosen't matter locally


I wouldn't say that, hint, hint. :D
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Postby DaveMk1 » Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:16 pm

I looked through the SCCA rules and it seems that you are right. What I wasn't clear on is if I'll fall into DM on street tires and into a different class if I use slicks, or if I'm in DM either way. Does anyone know?

I agree it would be best to know what class I'm in case I run somewhere where thet pay attention to class. At least to know if I've been classed properly.

Locally my my aim is till to beat Norm :).

Happy New Year!

Dave
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Postby JoeE » Sun Jan 01, 2006 7:41 pm

What I wasn't clear on is if I'll fall into DM on street tires and into a different class if I use slicks, or if I'm in DM either way.

Unless it has changed, once you are in Prepared or Mod classes you can run slicks, DOT R-compounds or street tires.
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Postby rkaiser » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:14 pm

Dave, if you download the manual and do a search for Birkin or Caterham you will see the classing info on page 122. The Birkin will be in either DM or EM. I didn't see anything about tires but you can run any type of wheel. I'm guessing Hoosiers would be the choice at National/Divisional events.
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Postby DaveMk1 » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:23 am

If that's the case then I think the ticket would be to have a second set of wheels with real slicks mounted to autcross with.

My car has 15" wheels now but the hot guys run 13's to lower the gearing, center of mass, and wheel weight. That could be the way to go. There is a cool rack design out there that allows one to carry a set of wheels on the back of the Birkin so that's wouldn't be bad.

What do you think?

Dave
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Postby RayAR » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:38 am

rkaiser wrote: I'm guessing Hoosiers would be the choice at National/Divisional events.


As long as they are Hoosier road race slicks. Prepared and Modified(Except Street Modified) are classes for full race slicks.


The only difference between EM and DM is the minimum weight. I believe EM is 1700lbs so that would put you into DM with a 1300 LB min. Unfortunatly, Dave's car will still be in DM even on Street tires.
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Postby DaveMk1 » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:37 pm

13's mounted with slicks it is then!

Dave
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Postby rkaiser » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:27 pm

13's mounted with slicks it is then!


It's going to look like a skateboard!
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Postby RayAR » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:50 pm

fastneons wrote:
Your right, It dosen't matter locally


I wouldn't say that, hint, hint. :D


Hmmmmm, Very interesting Nick. Are you saying we are going to have more then 2 classes?
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Postby fastneons » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:17 am

I'm just thinking everyone might want to class there cars for pax. I hear there is a pax championship in the works, along with ftd(not the flowers) championship. :D I think this is about the best way to do it for our region because of the limited number of cars in each class. Here is the link to the 2006 pax/rtp, http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2006.html
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Postby DaveMk1 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:41 pm

So am I correct on this? Do you muliply your time by your class's PAX number and the guy with the lowest time wins?

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Postby fastneons » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:12 pm

So am I correct on this? Do you muliply your time by your class's PAX number and the guy with the lowest time wins?


Yes.
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Postby RayAR » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:19 pm

DaveMk1 wrote:So am I correct on this? Do you muliply your time by your class's PAX number and the guy with the lowest time wins?

Dave


You are correct.
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Postby Kevin NB8C' » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:09 pm

fastneons wrote:I'm just thinking everyone might want to class there cars for pax. I hear there is a pax championship in the works


real men compare raw times, not pax :twisted:

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Postby RayAR » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:35 pm

Kevin NB8C' wrote:real men compare raw times, not pax :twisted:


I feel haveing PAX times is good and it will help people compare times in different classes allthough I believe that the Street tire classes(STS, STS2, STX, STU) will have a PAX advantage on the asphalt courses we have. Slicks or DOT R's just don't have the performance advantage on asphalt that they do on concrete. Because of this, as long as the tire type remains the same then you could compare times. What I mean is you could compare a GS car to an ASP or SM car because they all run R compounds and you could compare an AM car to a GP car because they both run slicks. Personally, I am just going for the flowers(FTD) :D BTW, on a 50 second course I would need to run 3.5 seconds quicker than an STS car to beat it's PAX numbers.
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Postby Kevin NB8C' » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:50 pm

RayAR wrote:
Kevin NB8C' wrote:real men compare raw times, not pax :twisted:


I feel haveing PAX times is good and it will help people compare times in different classes allthough I believe that the Street tire classes(STS, STS2, STX, STU) will have a PAX advantage on the asphalt courses we have. Slicks or DOT R's just don't have the performance advantage on asphalt that they do on concrete. Because of this, as long as the tire type remains the same then you could compare times. What I mean is you could compare a GS car to an ASP or SM car because they all run R compounds and you could compare an AM car to a GP car because they both run slicks. Personally, I am just going for the flowers(FTD) :D BTW, on a 50 second course I would need to run 3.5 seconds quicker than an STS car to beat it's PAX numbers.


I was just messing around... but actually, I do think that some of the classes have a handicap that helps them more than others. If a car is modified so that it just barely bumps up into the next class, it gets hit with a HUGE disadvantage with the pax system. You would have to have a million different classes in order to make things 'fair' for the driver (something that pax tries to accomplish). I dunno. I guess I just dont like the SCCA classing system. The classes currently used do not work, never have, and never will. I only compare raw times. This puts my car at a disadvantage to some, but thats my choice. It is still possible to put down the ftd if you are good/lucky enough.


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