Top Gun Apology

Southwest Montana SCCA discussions for the 2012 season.
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s2kautoxr
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Top Gun Apology

Postby s2kautoxr » Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:15 pm

I'd like to apologize to you all for my comment when B stock Top Gun winner was announced. Both Phil and I were shocked at his first place because we had both tallied up each days best time together and determined I had slightly beat him overall. The last thing I want to do is make the club look bad in front of all our friends and fellow drivers.
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby DaveMk1 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:50 pm

s2kautoxr wrote:I'd like to apologize to you all for my comment when B stock Top Gun winner was announced. Both Phil and I were shocked at his first place because we had both tallied up each days best time together and determined I had slightly beat him overall. The last thing I want to do is make the club look bad in front of all our friends and fellow drivers.



No worries - did you guys just get the math wrong? Easy to do and certainly understandable.

dave
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby s2kautoxr » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:54 pm

DaveMk1 wrote:
s2kautoxr wrote:I'd like to apologize to you all for my comment when B stock Top Gun winner was announced. Both Phil and I were shocked at his first place because we had both tallied up each days best time together and determined I had slightly beat him overall. The last thing I want to do is make the club look bad in front of all our friends and fellow drivers.



No worries - did you guys just get the math wrong? Easy to do and certainly understandable.

dave


The math was right. Phil's best time, which they used for scoring, had 2 cones that weren't counted. Phil himself told me he had 2 cone hits on his 93.xxx run. Oh well, always next year.

Brad
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby DaveMk1 » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:07 pm

s2kautoxr wrote:
DaveMk1 wrote:
s2kautoxr wrote:I'd like to apologize to you all for my comment when B stock Top Gun winner was announced. Both Phil and I were shocked at his first place because we had both tallied up each days best time together and determined I had slightly beat him overall. The last thing I want to do is make the club look bad in front of all our friends and fellow drivers.



No worries - did you guys just get the math wrong? Easy to do and certainly understandable.

dave


The math was right. Phil's best time, which they used for scoring, had 2 cones that weren't counted. Phil himself told me he had 2 cone hits on his 93.xxx run. Oh well, always next year.

Brad


Bummer - so Phil says he hit cones but the official results don't reflect that?


dave
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby s2kautoxr » Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:14 pm

DaveMk1 wrote:
Bummer - so Phil says he hit cones but the official results don't reflect that?


dave


Unfortunately, yes.
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby Mel Kuipers » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:14 pm

I would post as such on their forum...I have found the GF leadership to be open to correction...I think it at the very least needs to be brought to their attention....oh and given the story and your pre-post-event conversation with Phil, the cards are in your favor...by comparison, last year or the year before I was given the Mt Challenge 1st place in C stock, which should have gone to Billings Dean Johnson---all be cause the Challenge used the sat time instead of the more accurate sunday time....so it got corrected, and in the words of my youngest daughter I had to make the 'walk of shame' over to Dean to give him the trophy...that happened and a Billings event and Dean was most gracious---meaning he just smiled politely and took the trophy while shaking my hand...(and yes, I still covet the trophy)
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby JoeE » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:17 pm

I agree with the above. If Dr. Phil says he hit the cones but they were not recorded I would think they would correct it. I know from my time as radio guy at our work station that there were communication issues.

Brad, I don't think you have anything to appologize for.
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby s2kautoxr » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:57 am

Mel Kuipers wrote:I would post as such on their forum...


I sent Jeff a PM. Other than that its out of my hands and I'm going to look forward to the next event.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby Jeff Thill » Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:05 pm

What the hell are you apologizing for????? LOL. No worries. CSI crime investigation found no fingerprints at the crime scene. The computer says no cones. Will speak to Dr. Phil about it one more time. Maybe I will just send you both a first place trophy??????????????? ;-) What the heck anyways. Actually maybe I should send Mel two trophies for playing game with him during the awards ceremony?? I will be in touch. And congrats once again. Hell If I am ever going to see this trophy again I might have to move to a different city?

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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby s2kautoxr » Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:05 pm

Jeff Thill wrote:What the hell are you apologizing for????? LOL. No worries. CSI crime investigation found no fingerprints at the crime scene. The computer says no cones. Will speak to Dr. Phil about it one more time. Maybe I will just send you both a first place trophy??????????????? ;-) What the heck anyways. Actually maybe I should send Mel two trophies for playing game with him during the awards ceremony?? I will be in touch. And congrats once again. Hell If I am ever going to see this trophy again I might have to move to a different city?


Thanks for looking into it Jeff. If Phil was not 100% certain of his cone hits then the results are the results and I will graciously and proudly accept my 2nd place standing. It wouldn't even have been a consdieration unless Phil had mentioned to me that he had 2 cones on his run.

Thanks again for an incredible event Jeff. See you at the next one.

Brad
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby Jeff Thill » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:14 pm

Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this subject. I didn't get home till after 10pm and currently I have not even unloaded my car or truck. Plus we had a back to school function tonight. So here are the findings. As promised from me to you at the awards ceremony, I would go back and look at the time sheets. Your concern was that the results page I had did not show cones added into the time. As discussed at the ceremony, the time sheets always show cones. Since it was two cones missing and not just one.... I wanted to make sure. One cone not being called in is a possibility but two cones..... I wanted to just make sure. So after looking at the computer and the picture I took of the board, there was not a single cone marked on Phil's time. I spoke with Phil. He didn't hit two cones but he did hit one cone. He said it was not one of those times that it was a possible hit...... He said he hit it with some attitude. Jeff from the Missoula club also saw it. So the one cone penalty was also on his best run. So taking this into consideration and adding the two times together, Phil had a total time of 190.687 and you had a time of 190.646. Extremely close race. What an awesome competition between the two of you. I will definitely be watching the two of you more closely in the future for some great competitive battles! So congratulations Mr Kincaid on your 1st place finish at the 2012 Top Gun!!!

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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby Jeff Thill » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:18 pm

And once again thank you Brad for bringing it to my attention in a decent manner. After a long weekend of racing I the sun it can always be easy to bite the head of someone off and god knows I had my share of that with the timing lights. So thanks again for being nice about it and bringing it to my attention. I honestly don't know what you were talking about when you said you needed to apologize. You were nice to me.

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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:32 pm

Nice work Jeff - thanks for dealing with this in a timely and professional manner. very cool.

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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby s2kautoxr » Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:38 am

Thank you Jeff for looking into this. I'd also like to thank Phil for being a stand up guy and a hell of a driver/competitor.

Brad
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby DaveMk1 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:04 am

s2kautoxr wrote:Thank you Jeff for looking into this. I'd also like to thank Phil for being a stand up guy and a hell of a driver/competitor.

Brad


Exactly - how cool is that? Very cool I say.

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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby Alex » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:57 am

Jeff Thill wrote:Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this subject. I didn't get home till after 10pm and currently I have not even unloaded my car or truck. Plus we had a back to school function tonight. So here are the findings. As promised from me to you at the awards ceremony, I would go back and look at the time sheets. Your concern was that the results page I had did not show cones added into the time. As discussed at the ceremony, the time sheets always show cones. Since it was two cones missing and not just one.... I wanted to make sure. One cone not being called in is a possibility but two cones..... I wanted to just make sure. So after looking at the computer and the picture I took of the board, there was not a single cone marked on Phil's time. I spoke with Phil. He didn't hit two cones but he did hit one cone. He said it was not one of those times that it was a possible hit...... He said he hit it with some attitude. Jeff from the Missoula club also saw it. So the one cone penalty was also on his best run. So taking this into consideration and adding the two times together, Phil had a total time of 190.687 and you had a time of 190.646. Extremely close race. What an awesome competition between the two of you. I will definitely be watching the two of you more closely in the future for some great competitive battles! So congratulations Mr Kincaid on your 1st place finish at the 2012 Top Gun!!!


I don't know where he hit that cone, but if it was one out at the far end of the road course, it is entirely possible that the radios didn't reach the trailer. I was working at station 4 along the slalom, and I remember more than one case where station 5 at the sweeper called in a cone and got no response. The same also happened to me a couple of times. I tried to relay any of those calls that I could, and to repeat the call until I got confirmation from the trailer, but when it gets busy it's easy to miss one. Bottom line, something that should be stressed in drivers meetings is that if you call in a cone and the timer does not respond, you should assume they did not hear you and call it again.
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby Jeff Thill » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:58 am

It happened on the pad. Yea the station five thing was wierd. I know I was having problems because it seemed like I would get the second half of the sentence. What I need to do is remind people with radios to wait a second to talk after pushing the button. I always remind people at the local races but I just forgot at Top Gun. Lol. I need to start taking notes. Must be getting old.

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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby mdlfCRXs » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:11 am

Don't worry Brad, you are still a winner in our eyes!
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby PKS2K » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:45 am

Congratulations Brad in in taking first place at Top Gun & Montana Challenge this year!!

With this being your Rookie year of Autocrossing, I am impressed how your able to drive so consistently fast...
and make it look so easy!! May the cone Gods be on my side next year... :P
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby s2kautoxr » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:25 am

PKS2K wrote:Congratulations Brad in in taking first place at Top Gun & Montana Challenge this year!!

With this being your Rookie year of Autocrossing, I am impressed how your able to drive so consistently fast...
and make it look so easy!! May the cone Gods be on my side next year... :P


Thank you Phil. You pushed me quite a bit, so I have you to thank for my successful rookie year. :wink:

I look forward to events in the future with you Phil. I have a feeling we will both get faster and faster due to the great competition between the two of us.

Brad
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Re: Top Gun Apology

Postby Alex » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:04 am

s2kautoxr wrote:
PKS2K wrote:Congratulations Brad in in taking first place at Top Gun & Montana Challenge this year!!

With this being your Rookie year of Autocrossing, I am impressed how your able to drive so consistently fast...
and make it look so easy!! May the cone Gods be on my side next year... :P


Thank you Phil. You pushed me quite a bit, so I have you to thank for my successful rookie year. :wink:

I look forward to events in the future with you Phil. I have a feeling we will both get faster and faster due to the great competition between the two of us.

Brad


I for one am thoroughly looking forward to watching you two go at it again next year :)
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