Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Southwest Montana SCCA discussions for the 2011 season.
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DaveMk1
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Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby DaveMk1 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:03 pm

Hey,

Here is a map of the course we intend to run tomorrow. All the usual caveats and fine print apply.

See you in the AM.

Dave

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Dave K
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T WRX
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby T WRX » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:56 pm

Offer not valid in all states; check your local laws before ordering?

Or am I looking at the wrong caveat list?

Looking forward to more autocross madness!
Michael Holland
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby spazz240sx » Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:35 am

Ill bring a case of water courtesy of SRD. I don't have a cooler though, so if someone could bring a cooler I got water and ice..

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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby Alex » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:21 pm

'91 MR2 V6 - Why do I keep taking this thing apart?!?
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby nickjones07GT » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:55 pm

Thanks for posting the results so quickly. My car felt great today and I really enjoyed driving. Thanks everyone for showing up and making this a fun event.
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby DaveMk1 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:07 pm

Wow - thanks for the quick results posting. I hardly had time to eat lots of ice cream for lunch and change my tires and the results are up~ very cool.

Thanks to everyone for a fun event. I had a great time and learned more about my car - it will both understeer and spin during the same run! I even got the ABS to trigger while going backward - that was a new thing.

I guess we'll see you all in a few weeks if not sooner.



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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:53 am

So I'm looking for some blunt feedback on the course we ran yesterday. It was similar to the course we ran there a while back (they are all fairly similar due the the size/shape of the lot) but I changed it a bit to make the finish safer.

I think the course worked 'fine' (safe and quick and flowed as well as it can given the lot) but was maybe a bit boring............ or maybe uninspired or unchallenging..........I don't know. What do you all think? What did you like and what would you like to be different?

Thanks,

dave
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby Alex » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:59 am

For me, the thing that really makes the Cardinal courses is the elevation change. The course itself doesn't need to be as interesting or challenging as a course on a flat lot, because the hills add their own unique element of challenge (as I'm sure you noticed coming off the hill backwards yesterday:)).

I can't be too critical of any course on that lot, since there just isn't much you can do with it. That said, my only real complaint about the last two has been the nearly 360 degree turn around at the end, especially done twice. One way to do it that might work would be to go straight off the top of the hill on both laps, and then the second lap bypass would be on the exit side of the turn around rather than on the entrance. That way you have a 180 degree turn on the first lap and from there go straight toward the finish (perhaps add an offset in there somewhere), and then on the second lap you continue around and have your 270 degree turn to reverse the direction.

On the other hand, that may be just because I / my car tend to prefer slaloms, offsets, and slightly higher speed sweepers. I think I just don't have the patients for long slow steady state corners. Its probably good for me to be forced to do them occasionally:)
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:30 am

Alex wrote:For me, the thing that really makes the Cardinal courses is the elevation change. The course itself doesn't need to be as interesting or challenging as a course on a flat lot, because the hills add their own unique element of challenge (as I'm sure you noticed coming off the hill backwards yesterday:)).

I can't be too critical of any course on that lot, since there just isn't much you can do with it. That said, my only real complaint about the last two has been the nearly 360 degree turn around at the end, especially done twice. One way to do it that might work would be to go straight off the top of the hill on both laps, and then the second lap bypass would be on the exit side of the turn around rather than on the entrance. That way you have a 180 degree turn on the first lap and from there go straight toward the finish (perhaps add an offset in there somewhere), and then on the second lap you continue around and have your 270 degree turn to reverse the direction.

On the other hand, that may be just because I / my car tend to prefer slaloms, offsets, and slightly higher speed sweepers. I think I just don't have the patients for long slow steady state corners. Its probably good for me to be forced to do them occasionally:)


Thanks for the feedback - I'm not 100% sure I understand exactly what you are suggesting but if I do it sounds good :)

It sounds like you are saying that we should use the far end of the lot more like we did on the final lap (coming down the hill) more and do the full loop less.

I'd like to be able to run here without having a loop at the far end. For 10 years now we've run that loop and it seems it was always done that way to keep speeds down on a small lot whose run-off is an open public road. That said I think we should be able to keep speeds in check without doing a loop at that end.

We should give that a good look before our next event there and see what we can come up with.

Dave
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby sheldonross » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:10 pm

I don't like the loop either, but I think that's largely because I can't figure out how to do it right. I'm either completely off-boost in second, or trying to get into first for half a second before getting back to second. :?

Maybe I just need an automatic :oops:

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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby kjohnson » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:01 pm

sheldonross wrote:I don't like the loop either, but I think that's largely because I can't figure out how to do it right. I'm either completely off-boost in second, or trying to get into first for half a second before getting back to second. :?

Maybe I just need an automatic :oops:

Stay in second.

Realistically you probly have more power "off-boost" than my car has peak, it just seems like you have little power because your used to having more. Shifting will upset your car making it handle worse and it takes your mind off what you're doing. Alex might argue with me here, but I have found very few situations where shifting has improved my times. If you are on a more or less straight section and you can make your gear changes without affecting whatever else you're doing, then do what seems right, but I think on most autocross courses you'll find very few situations like that.

Personally, I just start our in first, shift to second when I have the opportunity, and leave it there. There have been a few times in Helena I've gone for third if I'm redlining it (can't be too careful, my car has no rev-limiter), but it's for such a short time it almost never helps my times.

I've never gotten the fastest time of the day or anything, but that is my advice, take it or leave it.
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Alex
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Re: Cardinal Dist 8/28/11 course

Postby Alex » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:22 pm

Nope, I won't argue that. 95% of the time if I need to go to 1st its because I screwed up and lost too much speed somewhere. If I drive smoothly I can stay in second on almost every course and be faster. Occasionally there is a corner where I do think its faster for me to shift, but those are by far the exception rather than the rule. The "loop" as we are calling it was one of those cases where if I drove it right 2nd was perfectly fine, it was only when I screwed up the entrance that I felt the need to use 1st.

That said, I'm not saying that we shouldn't do the loop at all, just that once per run might be enough, and would add a bit more variety to the course. It is, in my opinion, a challenging element to get right, and on the Cardinal lot I think it really becomes a make or break element for a good run.
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