The Commons 5/14.

Southwest Montana SCCA discussions for the 2011 season.
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The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Sun May 15, 2011 8:13 am

It was a really fun day yesterday and I wish we could do it all again today - especially if the wind backed off!

I think the lot works very well for us and look forward to many events there in the future and I want to thank the folks at The Commons for allowing us to use their lot. A big thanks also goes out to everyone who made the event happen - Russ for setting the schedule, Nick for making the timing work well, Joe for being the event chair, Kent and Mel for being the safety stewards and to all those that did all the little things that need to happen on race day to make a smooth event. I big personal thanks goes to Norm for coming out at 7:15 to help me set cones in a very cold wind.

A big thanks and welcome also needs to go out to all the new folks that joined us for their first event or first event with us here in Bozeman. We appreciate your being there and look forward to seeing you again.

Lastly a big thanks to Autoworks for making the work and for paying for the awards. Thank you very much.

See you at Cardinal soon.

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Sun May 15, 2011 8:34 am

Dave said it all...ditto to all he said..1st event at a new venue went so smooth, we have a high bar to get over for the rest of the season..and we will...I think the generator is a nice addition to computer integrity...that helps a lot...oh, and on the side to Nick J---I am not a hail damage repair expert, but Coby came by after the event with a gleaming G8 that was a golf ball last year...check with him about hail damage repair....
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby mdlfCRXs » Sun May 15, 2011 9:07 am

Yes, a great time was had by all, great to see so many new comers. It felt great to be racing again. Thanks to all who helped. The event went smoothly because of all of the pre-race footwork put in by so many, Russ, Joe, Nick, Kent, Dave, ... that takes a lot of time and is much appreciated. Also everyone pitching in to do the jobs at the site made things go very smoothly and we got through the day in good time. After waiting all winter the course runs went by so quickly; good for starting the season. When we get to Helena the course will seem like an eternity, I hope we are in shape.

And yes, a great site, very nice pavement with few obstructions, good off track grid site, easy access, and out of the way so we won't offend anyone. Let's do all we can to keep this site available.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Alex » Sun May 15, 2011 11:44 am

Results are up: http://swmtscca.org/index.php?option=co ... &Itemid=64

One thing we haven't figured out yet is if we can automatically generate the "category PAX" results for the awards. The "Top Times of Day" section at the bottom is raw, not PAX. It is pretty easy to just go through the PAX results and pick out the first of each category, which may be what we have to do. However, I have posted on the Axware forum asking if it is possible to automatically generate the results we need.

With that in mind and assuming I have not made any mistakes, the awards go to (Drum roll please):

Raw Time: Russ Kaiser
PAX Time: Dave Firth
Stock Category: Russ Kaiser
Street Prepared: Joe Evers
Prepared: Kent Johnson
Street Touring: Dave Firth
Street Modified: Alex Wilhelm

Regarding the event, I had a blast. Good to be back racing again, and the new site seems like it will work out great. The course was a typical flowing Dave Kirk course, very fun. The only concern I had course wise was the light post "stub" at the far corner of the lot. The way the course forced you to turn away from the post I felt like a spin in that section could end quite badly. That said, I don't know if there would be a better way to setup that corner to avoid that situation, and all around I really enjoyed the course.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby RayAR » Sun May 15, 2011 1:05 pm

The only mistake I saw in the results is, unfortunatly Dave Firths Mini that took top PAX. A car on slicks can not be in ST He should have been in one of the prepared or modified classes so that puts Russ on top of PAX, But I guess if there was no protest at the event then the results are correct and Dave Firth is on top of PAX. It really dosen't matter since we do this all for fun anyway.

Anyway, Looked like a fun course and I wish I could have been driving.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Sun May 15, 2011 1:51 pm

Yo -

Very cool that the results were straightened out and posted so quickly - thanks for making that happen.

Alex it looks to me like you've got the results posted properly so there are some folks that will be getting some glasses. Since Russ got his FTD glass at the event that means the rest of the folks Alex listed will have one coming.

The way we are doing the awards is if you win FTD or PAX you will get that glass only (I can hear the groans from here - 'now shush' as my Mom would say) because if you've won either of those you must have also won your category.

So we will need to get Dave Firth his pax glass as well as the others listed in the categories. I can bring them to the Cardinal event and give them out there or if you just can't wait give me a call (582 9084) and arrange to come over and pick yours up before then.

Ray - it was good to see you and I'm glad you and your sweet girl stopped by...... she is adorable. And yes you are right - I think Dave's Mini is in the wrong class but since it wasn't protested at the event I think the thing to do it let it stand. I do think we will need to figure out what class he should be in as his car is set up to make it as fair as possible. What would that car fit in folks? E-Mod or EP maybe? Who knows the rule book better than I do? ......most everyone I think.

Alex - if we can't get the software to sort the results the way we like I think it's not too bad to just go down the PAX list and pick the highest one from each category on the list and write it down. I assume that is what you just did and I did the same and it took just a minute of course.

----------------------------------------

As an aside, I love how close the racing was - the top 5 in FTD were within 1 second and the top 7 in PAX were within 1 second. That is a tight grouping and is really fun to see. I think it shows that this type of course levels the playing field as much as one can expect in terms of horsepower, weight, tires, etc. It's also a real testament to Russ' driving skill that despite the fact that he has less power than the 3 drivers that followed him in FTD that he came out on top. Nice work Russ.

Next event will of course be at Cardinal and it's a really fun place to run for those of you who haven't had the pleasure. There is elevation gain which makes it fun and tricky. One thing to keep in mind is that it will be very sandy there and we will want to plan on having the brooms moving all morning. If everyone puts in 5 minutes with a broom it will go quickly and make for a good grippy surface.

Call/write me if you want to come by and get your glass otherwise I'll bring them to the next event. They will be empty so BYOB.

See you soon.

Dave
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Alex » Sun May 15, 2011 2:28 pm

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby mdlfCRXs » Sun May 15, 2011 5:47 pm

So I wonder how beer tastes in that ftd glass. Unless, could Russ have given it to his kids to mix their watercolor paints?
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Sun May 15, 2011 6:38 pm

or....could he have given them a child's portion of a beer in the glass....oh, wait, that would be air...but the glass would sparkle....can you feel the jealousy Russ?
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby BluToyBoy » Sun May 15, 2011 8:34 pm

Looks like a great course, Dave, Helena will feel like an eternity!! Joe - BSP????? Come on, man:) Alex - great job!! Just you N me now?? See you guys soon, I hope..

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Alex » Sun May 15, 2011 8:45 pm

BluToyBoy wrote:Just you N me now?? See you guys soon, I hope..


Yeah, looks like it. I unfortunately won't be making it to divisionals this year, but I plan to be at every other event.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby rkaiser » Sun May 15, 2011 9:10 pm

So I wonder how beer tastes in that ftd glass


Sorry, only had Lactos free skim milk in it so far and it tasted pretty good :) The event was a lot of fun - felt good to be driving the little red car again. I am tired of this dang wind! Spent all afternoon today in it with the kid's soccer games
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Sun May 15, 2011 9:56 pm

BluToyBoy wrote:Looks like a great course, Dave, Helena will feel like an eternity!! Joe - BSP????? Come on, man:) Alex - great job!! Just you N me now?? See you guys soon, I hope..


I thought you might like to see the course map. The red dots are light poles so we need to work around them.

I'm looking forward to being in Helena again. It will be a bit of a shock going that quick for the first time of the season at Divisionals. How's the truck running?

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby rtp.rick » Mon May 16, 2011 3:55 am

RayAR wrote:The only mistake I saw in the results is, unfortunatly Dave Firths Mini that took top PAX. A car on slicks can not be in ST He should have been in one of the prepared or modified classes so that puts Russ on top of PAX, But I guess if there was no protest at the event then the results are correct and Dave Firth is on top of PAX. It really dosen't matter since we do this all for fun anyway.

Anyway, Looked like a fun course and I wish I could have been driving.


Nice job getting the results posted so quickly!! Thanks a ton!!

Was Mr. Firth's Mini on true slicks, or "R" compound autocross tires?

Thanks, with H's & K's,
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon May 16, 2011 6:54 am

rtp.rick wrote:
RayAR wrote:The only mistake I saw in the results is, unfortunatly Dave Firths Mini that took top PAX. A car on slicks can not be in ST He should have been in one of the prepared or modified classes so that puts Russ on top of PAX, But I guess if there was no protest at the event then the results are correct and Dave Firth is on top of PAX. It really dosen't matter since we do this all for fun anyway.

Anyway, Looked like a fun course and I wish I could have been driving.


Nice job getting the results posted so quickly!! Thanks a ton!!

Was Mr. Firth's Mini on true slicks, or "R" compound autocross tires?

Thanks, with H's & K's,
Rick Ruth


Not a DOT tire but true road race Hoosier slicks.

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Alex » Mon May 16, 2011 7:15 am

Interesting, I could have sworn the tires on the mini had tread... I may be thinking of last hear however.

I guess my question now is, did he class himself in ST, or did he just end up there because that's what he was in last year. I know there were some difficulties getting the timing system working initially, and the class on Joe's car had to be changed after the fact.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby rtp.rick » Mon May 16, 2011 7:25 am

True slicks would certainly matter!!

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:33 am

Alex wrote:Interesting, I could have sworn the tires on the mini had tread... I may be thinking of last hear however.

I guess my question now is, did he class himself in ST, or did he just end up there because that's what he was in last year. I know there were some difficulties getting the timing system working initially, and the class on Joe's car had to be changed after the fact.


I can't say with 100% certainty but I think Dave put himself in ST on someone's suggestion last year while the car was on DOT tires and then didn't think to change classes when he changed to slicks. I have zero feeling that Dave was trying to get away with something but instead didn't understand that the tire change would/should change the classing. I think we just need to tell Dave that he was accidentally in the wrong class and suggest to him where he should be and all will be fine.

So where should he Mini be? I think it has a stock engine and still has a full interior. I think it has an aftermarket race seat and 4 point belts and of course it's being run on true non-DOT slicks. My classing knowledge is as always limited to what I drive so I'm no expert - but - it seems like the above would put him in Prepared or Mod. Is that right? If it is which Prepared or Mod class would the car be in? I think Dave would appreciate help with getting him in the right class so if we can give him some helps that would be good.

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby JoeE » Mon May 16, 2011 7:38 am

Alex wrote:or did he just end up there because that's what he was in last year.

That.

From a quick glance through the book it looks like GP would be the correct class.

I had a great time Saturday, except for the wind. A big thanks to all the Chiefs and others who helped make the event run smoothly and funnly.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Alex » Mon May 16, 2011 7:48 am

JoeE wrote:
Alex wrote:or did he just end up there because that's what he was in last year.

That.

From a quick glance through the book it looks like GP would be the correct class.

I had a great time Saturday, except for the wind. A big thanks to all the Chiefs and others who helped make the event run smoothly and funnly.


I looked as well and it looks like GP or possibly EP. EP lists an Austin / Morris: Mini Cooper S (1275)

GP has an Austin Morris: Cooper 1275, no mention of the Mini name. Is that the correct car (I honestly don't know enough about them it seems).

Wait, funnly... is that even a word? :)
Last edited by Alex on Mon May 16, 2011 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby WD40 » Mon May 16, 2011 8:09 am

He's just got too many Minis! :mrgreen:
I not sure which one he ran last weekend, but I do know that his Mini Cooper S was classed improperly last year.
The "S" model should be in STX and if it's on slicks would go to DSP.

I do see one car that's not classed right in the results page.
MazdaSpeed 3 (#12) should be in DS, not GS.

23 drivers!
That's a pretty good turnout for the first event of the season.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon May 16, 2011 9:09 am

WD40 wrote:He's just got too many Minis! :mrgreen:
I not sure which one he ran last weekend, but I do know that his Mini Cooper S was classed improperly last year.
The "S" model should be in STX and if it's on slicks would go to DSP.

I do see one car that's not classed right in the results page.
MazdaSpeed 3 (#12) should be in DS, not GS.

23 drivers!
That's a pretty good turnout for the first event of the season.


It was his old Mini.

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Alex » Mon May 16, 2011 10:06 am

WD40 wrote:He's just got too many Minis! :mrgreen:
I not sure which one he ran last weekend, but I do know that his Mini Cooper S was classed improperly last year.
The "S" model should be in STX and if it's on slicks would go to DSP.

I do see one car that's not classed right in the results page.
MazdaSpeed 3 (#12) should be in DS, not GS.

23 drivers!
That's a pretty good turnout for the first event of the season.


It might go to DP on slicks... but slicks (IE, not DOT tires) are not allowed in any of the Street Prepared classes
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby WD40 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:43 am

^^^I was thinking DOT tires, like a Hoosier A6.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:51 am

WD40 wrote:^^^I was thinking DOT tires, like a Hoosier A6.


no - the old Mini is on non-DOT road race slicks. I think we need to remember that DOT tires (like the A6) are an "R Compound" and are technically not slicks. Slicks are road race tires never to be used on the street. They are lighter and a good bit faster/grippier which is why I suppose they are enough to bump classes. I suppose we should refer to them by what I think are their proper names - "R compounds" and "slicks".

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby NoMansEyes » Mon May 16, 2011 11:50 am

I wish I could have made it. That course looked fun...
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby findurpath » Mon May 16, 2011 12:15 pm

Hey everyone, thanks for showing this newbie an awesome time! It was great how friendly everyone was and I really am looking forward to the next run! Here's a link to some pics I was able to snap.


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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby NickJ » Mon May 16, 2011 12:58 pm

Very nice, James! Might have to start up another 'photos' section on the front page.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby findurpath » Mon May 16, 2011 5:51 pm

Thanks Nick! I'll try and get some more photos of people's runs next time! :D
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby findurpath » Mon May 16, 2011 5:53 pm

Mel Kuipers wrote:or....could he have given them a child's portion of a beer in the glass....oh, wait, that would be air...but the glass would sparkle....can you feel the jealousy Russ?


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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby mdlfCRXs » Tue May 17, 2011 12:37 pm

Alex wrote:I know its only been a day, but if anyone is interested in re-living the course, here are some videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrwWGR__cI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP0PuKAmTt0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAeUUwAbekI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwr-Lbdlnhg


for a slow-motion view-another version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvqDe-m4y3A
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby Tom_Porter » Tue May 17, 2011 2:44 pm

Thanks to all for creating such a great event - and for welcoming (and tolerating) another rookie on the course. I had a blast and I will be back for more. Unfortunately, I will miss the 6/5 event but I look forward to the June MSU day. Thanks to those who posted the pics and videos - great!
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby hshovic » Tue May 17, 2011 4:02 pm

As one of the new guys, I had big fun and look forward to the next autocross. There oughta be an award for dead last with the most horsepower.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby hshovic » Tue May 17, 2011 4:26 pm

And the next guy from the last should be happy, that he isn't last.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby DaveMk1 » Tue May 17, 2011 5:47 pm

Welcome to the forum gentlemen - it's good to have you.

Joe just left my place and he and I were just talking about the course design for the next event. I think we will have another fun day.

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby sheldonross » Thu May 19, 2011 2:09 pm

WD40 wrote:I do see one car that's not classed right in the results page.
MazdaSpeed 3 (#12) should be in DS, not GS.


Woohoo! that means I was first in DS class.... and last. :oops:

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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby RayAR » Thu May 19, 2011 10:18 pm

I just opened up a complete can of worms with Daves Mini. I still believe EP is the correct class from what I can tell. If I read the rules right, a mini in GP has a maximum rim of 14X6 inches and those little rims Dave had looked to be as wide as they are tall so I am guessing just a bit over 6 inches wide. If they are under 6 inched wide I would say GP. This is what I found in the EP rules for Austin/morris
Austin / Morris
America (1968-71)
Mini Cooper S (1275)
Alt engines: 850, 970, 997, 998, 1071, or 1098cc

The new minis are listed in a seperate spot so I am assuming that this covers all vintage minis
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby kjohnson » Fri May 20, 2011 6:59 am

RayAR wrote:I just opened up a complete can of worms with Daves Mini. I still believe EP is the correct class from what I can tell. If I read the rules right, a mini in GP has a maximum rim of 14X6 inches and those little rims Dave had looked to be as wide as they are tall so I am guessing just a bit over 6 inches wide. If they are under 6 inched wide I would say GP. This is what I found in the EP rules for Austin/morris
Austin / Morris
America (1968-71)
Mini Cooper S (1275)
Alt engines: 850, 970, 997, 998, 1071, or 1098cc

The new minis are listed in a seperate spot so I am assuming that this covers all vintage minis

Even if he's in GP and his wheels are wider than 6" he's allowed to run in DP, so that wouldn't be so bad. EP and DP both allow him to have wheels up to 7". We just need more info on exactly what his car is so we can say what class to put him in.
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Re: The Commons 5/14.

Postby WD40 » Fri May 20, 2011 8:20 am

sheldonross wrote:Woohoo! that means I was first in DS class.... and last. :oops:

Well, then you only have yourself to beat! :mrgreen:
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