The "Season Pass" idea

Southwest Montana SCCA discussions for the 2011 season.
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The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Alex » Sun May 08, 2011 9:55 pm

At the last meeting we talked about doing a season pass of sorts, pay one price up front for all of our events and get a bit of a discount. Is this something we want to actually do, and if so, do we want to get it figured out before the first event? I for one think its a great idea.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon May 09, 2011 6:31 am

I'd like to see it happen - and if it does it should happen before the first event.

Can you make it happen?


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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Mel Kuipers » Mon May 09, 2011 7:05 pm

I think it is a good idea...you had some $ number ideas at the last meeting Dave...what were they--would be a good place to start the discussion
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Mon May 09, 2011 9:32 pm

Mel Kuipers wrote:I think it is a good idea...you had some $ number ideas at the last meeting Dave...what were they--would be a good place to start the discussion


I think we spoke of not having the MT challenge event be part of the seasons pass program and setting it up so that if you paid for the season up front that you would get one event free.

So the incentives would be getting one event for free, being preregistered and paid for all events (leaving only signing the release and having the car teched) and Mel buys you lunch............. that last one might be off but you get the idea.

I think it could work well. I'd love to cut one check and be done and not need to worry about filling out the forms and getting a free event is gravy.

Is that how you remember it? Who can take this idea and put the nuts and bolts to it?

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Alex » Tue May 10, 2011 7:54 am

I guess the first question is, are the prices on the schedule page accurate. We just copied them from the old site, but I seem to recall talking about it and determining that they are correct. IE, 25/35 for local events, 30/40 for Helena (memer/non-member).

We have 8 local events and one Helena even (not counting MT Challenge). So I think that makes the previously discussed plan 8*25=$200, and the Helena event in Sept is free. Now, I know the club can't afford to give away too much on something like this, but as season passes go it doesn't seem like that great of a deal. Miss one event and you break even, miss two and you are behind. As much as everyone wants to make it to every single event, it seems like everyone always has a good reason to miss at least one. With that in mind, does $175 (two events free) seem reasonable, or is that going to potentially cut the club short? I don't know the club finances enough to do more than suggest on that front. Looking at it on a per event cost basis, 200 = $22.22 per event, 175 = $19.88 per event.

I think it only makes sense that the season pass is open to members only (I imagine that anyone doing that many events is a member). Do you think it also makes sense to have it only open to those who qualify for annual tech? Otherwise they would have to fill out forms every time anyway. It would also make it easier for registration. We could just have a list of the season pass members, and all you have to do is show up, check it on the list, and sign the waiver. Perhaps even combine them in the other direction... IE, if you want annual tech, you must buy a season pass?
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Tue May 10, 2011 8:43 am

Alex wrote:I guess the first question is, are the prices on the schedule page accurate. We just copied them from the old site, but I seem to recall talking about it and determining that they are correct. IE, 25/35 for local events, 30/40 for Helena (memer/non-member).

We have 8 local events and one Helena even (not counting MT Challenge). So I think that makes the previously discussed plan 8*25=$200, and the Helena event in Sept is free. Now, I know the club can't afford to give away too much on something like this, but as season passes go it doesn't seem like that great of a deal. Miss one event and you break even, miss two and you are behind. As much as everyone wants to make it to every single event, it seems like everyone always has a good reason to miss at least one. With that in mind, does $175 (two events free) seem reasonable, or is that going to potentially cut the club short? I don't know the club finances enough to do more than suggest on that front. Looking at it on a per event cost basis, 200 = $22.22 per event, 175 = $19.88 per event.

I think it only makes sense that the season pass is open to members only (I imagine that anyone doing that many events is a member). Do you think it also makes sense to have it only open to those who qualify for annual tech? Otherwise they would have to fill out forms every time anyway. It would also make it easier for registration. We could just have a list of the season pass members, and all you have to do is show up, check it on the list, and sign the waiver. Perhaps even combine them in the other direction... IE, if you want annual tech, you must buy a season pass?


Lots of good questions and not many answers from me. I don't know the pricing - I think we need to get Russ and Kent involved to settle that. As well as looking at what the benefits of a season's pass might be (i.e. one or two free events) based on how it would effect the club's cash flow.

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Mel Kuipers » Tue May 10, 2011 11:44 am

I think filling out the tech sheet at the new site, for each event would be easy, and quicker for the computer people...would also give a start head count to the club, and be done before we show up...then give a check, sign the waiver, and if you have annual tech, you are good to go...then, if you run in say 10 events sponsored by our club, you get the last event free...that would encourage participation, and reward the regulars...and if you missed an event and didn't get the free one, you would not feel like you lost out...the other thot I have, is to do a season pass (we have to calculate how much that would be) and if you pay a discount to that, you run for free all season--each deciding if that is a good deal or not...this discussion is complicated enough, we maybe should do a meeting...and not worry about it ahead of our first event...we can always deduct the first event fees paid, from the season pass amount for those of us running this sat..
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby JoeE » Tue May 10, 2011 12:04 pm

I don't have any numbers to back it up, but I think 2 free would be too much. If only a couple people did the "season pass" it wouldn't hurt, but if a bunch were to do it, and get two free events, I think it would hurt.
I think most would do the "season pass" for the convenience more than the savings.
If we were to do 7 * $25, so the Oct Helena event was free, if a person were to miss a local event, they would still more than break even.
I really don't know how many people will do the "season pass" if we offer it. Unfortunately we are running out of time to make this happen this season.

My biggest concern with this idea was administrating it, but I think if we made up a list of "pass holders", maybe with a check box for each event, and kept that with the registration box it wouldn't be bad. Another idea would be to make up punch cards for the "season pass" purchaser.

I agree with the above that annual tech would be required for the "season pass"
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby JoeE » Tue May 10, 2011 12:06 pm

Alex wrote:I guess the first question is, are the prices on the schedule page accurate. We just copied them from the old site, but I seem to recall talking about it and determining that they are correct. IE, 25/35 for local events, 30/40 for Helena (memer/non-member).

I just discussed this with RE Kent. We do need to change what shown, the member price for local events doesn't change, but:

Local - $25/member $40/non-member
Helena - $35/member $50/non-member
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby kjohnson » Tue May 10, 2011 12:24 pm

I am pretty indifferent to the season pass idea. I don't see a problem with giving away the Helena event if the others were paid. I don't want to give out more than that, I feel like the club would lose too much. Like Joe said, you still come out ahead if you only miss one local one. It's not meant to be for everybody to save money, so if you don't think you'll make it to all the events you just won't want to buy it.

In the spirit of making less work I'd vote for a checklist to keep with the event box. I'm guessing most people who get one will be at the first event and will pay for it then and we can add you to the list. What do you guys think? Too complicated? Not complicated enough? Got a better idea?
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Alex » Tue May 10, 2011 1:04 pm

JoeE wrote:
Alex wrote:I guess the first question is, are the prices on the schedule page accurate. We just copied them from the old site, but I seem to recall talking about it and determining that they are correct. IE, 25/35 for local events, 30/40 for Helena (memer/non-member).

I just discussed this with RE Kent. We do need to change what shown, the member price for local events doesn't change, but:

Local - $25/member $40/non-member
Helena - $35/member $50/non-member


Schedule page is updated with new pricing.

JoeE wrote:I don't have any numbers to back it up, but I think 2 free would be too much. If only a couple people did the "season pass" it wouldn't hurt, but if a bunch were to do it, and get two free events, I think it would hurt.
I think most would do the "season pass" for the convenience more than the savings.
If we were to do 7 * $25, so the Sept Helena event was free, if a person were to miss a local event, they would still more than break even.
I really don't know how many people will do the "season pass" if we offer it. Unfortunately we are running out of time to make this happen this season.

My biggest concern with this idea was administrating it, but I think if we made up a list of "pass holders", maybe with a check box for each event, and kept that with the registration box it wouldn't be bad. Another idea would be to make up punch cards for the "season pass" purchaser.

I agree with the above that annual tech would be required for the "season pass"


7*25 would be 2 free events, one local plus Helena at the end of the year. We have a total of 9 "regular" events scheduled this year, 8 local plus one Helena. On top of that we have the MT challenge events.

You are thinking of exactly what I was for the list. I think it could be a single sheet of paper with a column for each event and the name of each pass holder. You show up, put an X in your box and sign the waiver, and the timing person knows to check your box in the computer. This would also give us a record at the end of the year of who made full use of their pass.

As an alternate, I do like Mel's idea of doing a "go to all the local events, get the Helena event free" (or maybe half price, since you don't have to pay up front) sort of deal. No risk for the participants, encourages greater attendance, and probably less risk to the club as well.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby JoeE » Tue May 10, 2011 1:15 pm

Alex wrote:7*25 would be 2 free events, one local plus Helena at the end of the year. We have a total of 9 "regular" events scheduled this year, 8 local plus one Helena.

I don't count so good.
What I meant was 8 * $25, so the October Helena event would be free.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Alex » Tue May 10, 2011 1:24 pm

JoeE wrote:
Alex wrote:7*25 would be 2 free events, one local plus Helena at the end of the year. We have a total of 9 "regular" events scheduled this year, 8 local plus one Helena.

I don't count so good.
What I meant was 8 * $25, so the September Helena event would be free.


Tis OK... everyone knows engineers can't do basic math.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby kjohnson » Tue May 10, 2011 3:20 pm

Alex wrote:As an alternate, I do like Mel's idea of doing a "go to all the local events, get the Helena event free" (or maybe half price, since you don't have to pay up front) sort of deal. No risk for the participants, encourages greater attendance, and probably less risk to the club as well.

As fun as that sounds, it kinda defeats the purpose of the season pass. I think the idea is mainly to make registration and payment easier. This proposal doesn't seem to do that.

If we want to try this out lets start with the simplest solution we can come up with. It can always be expanded next season if we decide it was a success.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Tue May 10, 2011 4:36 pm

One of the things I like about the pass idea is that I will not need to bring a check book and make sure there is money in my account for each event. not a hardship I know but if i could cut one check and forget about it that would make me smile.

If setting it up so that we can pay for the entire season up front is too much a PITA then I think having it set up so that if you attend all the events prior to the final event that final event is free. I personally think this would be even harder to keep track of as someone will need to sit down and cull the list and see who has and who hasn't attending every prior event.

So I'd be happiest if we could do the original idea........ but I will defer to those in charge.

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Mel Kuipers » Tue May 10, 2011 7:23 pm

in my previous post I was not clear upon second reading...when I said fill out the form at the new site, I meant the new web site...no one else has addressed that possibility...what I am saying is to have a button that takes the member to a part of the site with the registration form...or even a forum posting that will enable the driver to enter his info on our web site...have a cut off time, and then print out the pre-registers for use the following day at the event...the computer people have the info early, the driver shows up with a check and signs the waiver...he/she then affixes the fashionable waiver wrist band, and is ready for setup work...as for the season pass, lets have a meeting before event #2 and work out the details...I think it is a great idea.... another thot is we could just look at the budget for the year prior to our Helena last event, and discount everyone who ran in at least # (pick a number) of our events this year...there is no doubt in my mind this is a great idea...lets think it thru and make it work...
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby JoeE » Wed May 11, 2011 9:05 am

Ok, so is this what we are thinking?
To do a "Season Pass" you have to qualify for annual tech, ie. you have been an active member for two years.
At the first event you would pay 8 * $25 = $200. You are then paid for all the local events plus the October event in Helena.
After the first event we would make up a sheet with all the "Pass holder's" names, a column for each event with check boxes, and I am thinking we should have a spot for the driver to sign indicating that they have teched their own car.
At each event the "pass holder" would check in with registration, sign the season pass sheet, the liability form, and they are good to go.
The timing person would look at the season pass sheet to know which season pass holders are at that event when they are entering driver info.

Should we put this to a vote?
Post YES if you think this is a good idea, and we should do it this year.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:41 am

JoeE wrote:Ok, so is this what we are thinking?
To do a "Season Pass" you have to qualify for annual tech, ie. you have been an active member for two years.
At the first event you would pay 8 * $25 = $200. You are then paid for all the local events plus the October event in Helena.
After the first event we would make up a sheet with all the "Pass holder's" names, a column for each event with check boxes, and I am thinking we should have a spot for the driver to sign indicating that they have teched their own car.
At each event the "pass holder" would check in with registration, sign the season pass sheet, the liability form, and they are good to go.
The timing person would look at the season pass sheet to know which season pass holders are at that event when they are entering driver info.

Should we put this to a vote?
Post YES if you think this is a good idea, and we should do it this year.


Yes - I vote yes for this plan.

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby kjohnson » Wed May 11, 2011 2:21 pm

Yes
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Alex » Wed May 11, 2011 2:33 pm

Sounds like a good plan to me, I vote yes.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed May 11, 2011 6:41 pm

If we do it would it make sense to announce it at the first event (or two?) to let those who don't read here that we have the Season's Pass Program (SPP)? Then, if they wanted to partake, they could come to the next event and pay for the pass and put their first event fee toward the pass. It just gives a short grace period. Most will not show up with enough dough to buy in even if they wanted to.

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby kjohnson » Wed May 11, 2011 7:51 pm

Yeah, I feel it'd be fair to make an announcement and give people till the next event to sign up.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Dogeater » Wed May 11, 2011 9:29 pm

Season pass is a good idea, getting a free event for doing it is not. It costs the club $10 in national dues and insurance for each driver. We run a narrow margin for most events when u add in rental fees and all the misc items like yearly computer fees, paper, ink, batterys, crappers etc.... The Montana challenge was a huge money maker for us all the other events not so much. Doing the cooperative season opener with great falls in the past years has also padded our bank account. And if it wasn't for Tim we would be shelling out some serious dough for the van. We also need fire extinguishers, new cones, flags etc... So what I'm saying is a small discount for a season pass is cool but not a free event. 8*25 =$200 for locals and then add the Helenas on top of that.

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed May 11, 2011 10:14 pm

To a certain extent I understand and share Coby's concerns. And at the same time I think there may only be 10 folks at the most (I would guess more like 5-6) that would pony up anyway. So the cost to cover the insurance for these folks would top out at $100 for the 'free' event.

Combine this with the fact that even though the pass holders would have paid for all the events no doubt some will miss one or more. In that case the club doesn't have to pay the insurance fee for that event and yet the club has taken in $25. So the club gains a good bit there from the inevitable missed events.

Also consider the fact club has been building it's account balance slowly over the years and last I heard it was about $6000. This money comes from somewhere and even though our local events don't bring in the big dollars they are bringing in some and I feel we'd not be taking a big risk of running the balance down with a program like this.

Lastly - the club would see a one time cash influx of $2000 if ten folks bought passes. This up front money brings withy it opportunity with it's positive cash flow to buy things like extinguishers and cones if need be.

I don't know how to figure how this would effect the bottom line - we need a money guy like Mel to tell us how it would effect the bottom line. My gut tells me we might actually add a small amount to the bottom line with the program even with a free event but I would be happy to be proven wrong.

What do the smart money folks think?

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby kjohnson » Thu May 12, 2011 7:40 am

I feel like the only way to know is to try it out. I also think the risk is low due to the small number of people who will likely sign up. And we'll be keeping track of what events the season pass holders make it to. We can calculate it out at the end of the year to see if we lost money. It might also help to think about it not like giving away a free event, but giving a $3.88 per event discount, or about a 15% discount on each event. Maybe you still think it's too high, and I wouldn't want to give away more than that, but it's not that bad.

I for one won't be buying a season pass and have no vested interest in seeing the program work. But, there are a few club members who think it would be nice and I'm not opposed to giving it a shot. Anyone who agrees with Coby feel free to speak up as well. I do value Coby's opinion and he certainly has a better idea of the clubs finances than I do.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Mel Kuipers » Thu May 12, 2011 10:17 am

because of my other sporting interests, I am quite sure I will miss two events this year...so the Season Pass does not pencil out...with that background, we need to consider the clubs interest in this program:
1. Membership liking the program
2. Increased cash flow early in the season (given our bank balance, this is not a need)
I think the club will probably make money on this, as things come up and season pass owners will likely miss some event or so...but as Kent said, we won't know unless we try it...then this fall we can crunch some data and see if it works going forward...
my vote is to offer it...
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Mel Kuipers » Thu May 12, 2011 12:29 pm

got an email from Joe thru Dave...Joe did some number crunching, and looks to me like this could cost us more as a club then we should afford...it also seems like we are moving too fast on a season long program...lets debate it, talk about it this season and look to implement it next season if it makes sense
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby JoeE » Thu May 12, 2011 1:23 pm

Mel, I think that does make sense.

Also, I am going to try to document what we spend and receive for each event, which would give us a better idea if we can offer something like this in the future.
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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby DaveMk1 » Thu May 12, 2011 1:29 pm

Sounds like a plan.

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Dogeater » Fri May 13, 2011 9:40 am

We may wanna put up a poll and see who is gonna do this. A small discount is ok, I'm just thinking long term and thought it would be nice to keep building the bank account and replace the van in 3-5 years or add a nice trailer after that then have club sponsored parties :-)

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Re: The "Season Pass" idea

Postby Mel Kuipers » Fri May 13, 2011 12:17 pm

have club sponsored parties?...ok I vote yes
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