Deep thoughts 2011.

Southwest Montana SCCA discussions for the 2011 season.
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Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:08 am

I was thinking the other day about something. One thing I like about doing the Missoula club events is that at the end of the day while the course is being picked up the timing guys tabulate the results and then hold a very low key awards ceremony. They read off the various class winners as well and FTD and PAX. I really like how it caps off the day. Our club used to do something similar and for some reason stopped doing so.

I'd like to suggest that we bring the awards back and maybe even add a small twist. I'd like to see some actual trophy-like awards handed out. I was fortunate enough to win a few beer glasses at Missoula events way back when and I still use them to this day - and they still make me smile when I pull them out of the cupboard. So how about we have some glasses printed up to hand out at events? I was thinking of 3 different ones at each local event - FTD, PAX and the Event Chair Award. The first two are pretty traditional but the 3rd one is just one I made up. I picture the E.C. Award being handed out at the discretion of the event chair for that event and being given to the driver or volunteer that the E.C. feels did an exceptional job at that event. It could be that the driver really upped his/her game, it might be that the driver overcame large odds to drive well despite mechanical issues, or it may be given in a tongue-in-cheek manner to someone who may have just put themselves into the running for a Golden Pork Chop award due to an event day gaff - it would be up to the EC.

What do you all think? Would you like to try something like this? If so I would be happy to find a place to print the glasses for us.

Talk amongst yourselves -

Dave
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby kjohnson » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:33 am

Sounds like a fun idea. Any idea the cost of custom printed glasses?
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:10 am

hhhmmmm, Jack Handy...haven't thot of him for a long time...what a joy...I like the brief awards ceremony, if only for showing the official numbers..to marinate in our minds on the drive home...awards could be fun, but I wonder if it will appeal to the majority (PAX and FTD tend to have the same 6-7 people at the top at each event...this might isolate a lot of drivers from finding interest in the awards)...awards by class, for each class with more than one driver, might work to include the broader fields of drivers...or even a list of winners that gets complied to a single seasonal listing of all events, winners in each class for an award at the Jan meeting--each class winner receiving a placque or trophy...it is nice to start thinking of the season with others--under all that snow is pavement just waiting for cones and cars...
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:07 am

Mel Kuipers wrote:hhhmmmm, Jack Handy...haven't thot of him for a long time...what a joy...I like the brief awards ceremony, if only for showing the official numbers..to marinate in our minds on the drive home...awards could be fun, but I wonder if it will appeal to the majority (PAX and FTD tend to have the same 6-7 people at the top at each event...this might isolate a lot of drivers from finding interest in the awards)...awards by class, for each class with more than one driver, might work to include the broader fields of drivers...or even a list of winners that gets complied to a single seasonal listing of all events, winners in each class for an award at the Jan meeting--each class winner receiving a placque or trophy...it is nice to start thinking of the season with others--under all that snow is pavement just waiting for cones and cars...


I agree completely. The folks in contention for either the FTD or PAX prizes make for a small group. I thought it would be fun to give awards for all classes but that ends up being a lot of awards, money and to a certain degree time.

We could have simple paper awards for all classes but that might be a bit too close to cheesy.

Thoughts Mr. Handy?

Dave
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby RayAR » Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:32 am

Mel Kuipers wrote:(PAX and FTD tend to have the same 6-7 people at the top at each event...this might isolate a lot of drivers from finding interest in the awards)

In many ways I agree with you but you also need to remember that there can only be one winner and that being the case maybe they deserve it. If your not in contention and want an award them you need to step up your game, either that or maybe you can steal one out of the timing van.
IMHO, allthough an award would be pretty neat, I think the little meeting/reading of times we used to do before buck runs was pretty cool and often wondered why we quit doing it. Even passing around a copy of the times would suffice for me. Since I won't be involved next summer maybe that should be discussed between those that will.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Dogeater » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:40 am

That's a good idea. We never really got into doin that because of money. Missoula always has a sponsor for their events, if we get sponsors also to pay for them that would be great. Otherwise every local event will be a money loser. This last year the Montana challenge was our big money maker where we easily could have trophys. This past year without the van made printing results impossible, the year before I did print off results after each event and set it out. Most didn't see it cause they were busy leaving and cleaning up. Now that we have a bigger bank balance than ever, I think we get what we need (generator, cones, etc) and continue to save for a better club vehicle. If we do small trophies every event it won't kill us, but will eat away at our balance without a sponsor paying for them. With a possible evo school this year that will be big money out of our account and we most likely won't make money on it. We should find out actual expenses from previous schools.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:49 am

If this seems to be an idea worth pursuing then I will at least get an idea of the costs involved to see how much sponsorship might be needed.

sound good?

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby JoeE » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:35 am

I don't know what 3 printed beer glasses would cost, but I can't imagine that it would be enough to turn an MSU or Cardinal (which we pay nothing but sanction fees for) into money loss events. Trying to do an award for each class probably would though.

I think if the costs are not prohibitive, this is an idea we should pursue, I see no downside to it. Like Mel says, it may be the same few picking up the FTD and PAX awards, but the EC award is the wild card.

Dave, if you are willing to find out the costs, I think with that information it will be a relatively easy decision.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:51 pm

I was at Autoworks (Tim Fountaine's) today on other business and I asked him if he would be interested in sponsoring our awards for the 2011 season and without missing a beat he said yes. So I'll be looking into having some stuff done up with our club logo and the Autoworks logo and we'll take it from there.

Cool?

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby kjohnson » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:50 am

DaveMk1 wrote:I was at Autoworks (Tim Fountaine's) today on other business and I asked him if he would be interested in sponsoring our awards for the 2011 season and without missing a beat he said yes. So I'll be looking into having some stuff done up with our club logo and the Autoworks logo and we'll take it from there.

Cool?

Dave

Yes, very cool! That's awesome!

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby JoeE » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:41 am

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby WD40 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:57 am

^^^And there was much rejoicing! :mrgreen:
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:20 am

WD40 wrote:^^^And there was much rejoicing! :mrgreen:


What's your favorite colour?


dave

P.S. note proper continental spelling above indicating proper breeding.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Dogeater » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:03 pm

JoeE wrote:I don't know what 3 printed beer glasses would cost, but I can't imagine that it would be enough to turn an MSU or Cardinal (which we pay nothing but sanction fees for) into money loss events.

Cardinal = free
MSU = $150 (if i remember correctly)
I did the "books" after each event to see what ones made money and what ones didn't, just saying the locals are really close and in fact we did lose money on a couple this year....maybe it was one....but ya get the idea.
DaveMk1 wrote:I was at Autoworks (Tim Fountaine's) today on other business and I asked him if he would be interested in sponsoring our awards for the 2011 season and without missing a beat he said yes. So I'll be looking into having some stuff done up with our club logo and the Autoworks logo and we'll take it from there.

Cool?

Dave

Yes VERY Cool.

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:03 pm

there are only two kinds of beer I like--cold, and not so cold...and I like it in glasses...but lets not loose sight of the fact there might be way cheaper trinkets that would also serve as meaningful momentos of a race or races well run...Rays comment about stepping up to the Pax or FTD plate, while encouraging on its face, ignors the fact that many racers are running machines in their budget and will never out run Gordys Vette (or some of the other big dogs)...that being the reality, I like the idea of including a bauble for each class...that inclusiveness of awarding the full range of talent and machines, would do more to enhance the great club comaraderie we all enjoy...on the side, it is nice to see the inet interaction pick up--the site has been lonely for a while...to loose a child is sad, but to loose two children just seems irresponsible...Jack Handey
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby RayAR » Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:28 am

Hey Mel, I don't believe you need to have a Z06, lotus, or 911 to be able to set FTD or PAX FTD at an event, I think with the right driver even my Camaro could have set FTD at 1 or 2 events last year and it was a low dollar car.This last year I felt the car was right where it needed to be but me as a driver just couldn't get everything out of it. The biggest improvment that can be made is tightening the loose nut behind the wheel. I was at the point that no matter what I did to the car I was not going to be much faster and I really needed an EVO school. Honestly I had no idea what I was doing, for me it was just trying to get through the cones without knocking them down and if I happened to hit a correct line, well..... I would have never known. Do I expect an ST class Honda to beat one of our faster guys in better equipment? No but if driven well it can take FTD in PAX.

Now back to the awards. Do we need them? no. I know in my case it wouldn't have made a difference in the fun I had even if I won one. Is it something the region should think about doing? Yes. It is cool to get an award when your driving and car are good enough to set FTD or PAX. Will they go to the same few drivers? probably but not everyone can win and I stand by my statement that if you want an award then you need to step up your game, either in car prep or going to driving schools. Your right, there are only 4-5 driver/cars in this region that can set FTD but I feel that there are 15 or more that can set PAX FTD. If I remember right, to lazy to go back and check, the last event at MSU saw 12 drivers within 1 second of setting PAX FTD, That is all driver.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:21 am

We could have simple paper awards for all classes but that might be a bit too close to cheesy---Dave K

IMHO, there are no "cheesy" awards----any award is fun...I would not be at all offended by any trinket won and received in the fine spirit of our fellow gearheads.....I also bet my opinion on this subject is wide spread accross the members of the auto cross community...which is to say nice work developing this idea Dave....

post script: just talked with Judi, and she thinks there needs to be a "special" award for the woman who is the only one to drive at an event
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:21 pm

OK - I've got an idea...... or should I say I have a smart wife who has an idea.

While I think it would be cool to give awards for every class I also feel it would be very difficult to do. It could get expensive and time consuming to hand out awards and very difficult to predict how many awards we need to have on hand. It would also mean that since many classes are one car classes that those one car guys would be left out of the mix and not have anyone to compete against and they would not be eligible for an award. We have lots of one car classes in our little region.

So instead of giving out awards for each class how about we give out awards for each category. There are seven general categories that all the classes fit into –

Stock
Street Touring
Street Prepared
Street Mod
Prepared
Modified
Kart

If your car were in a stock class you would compete for the “stock category award” against everyone else that races in any other stock class. This would be based on PAX. So if the guy driving the Honda in H Stock places better in PAX than the guy driving the Vette in Super Stock he would be the stock winner for that event.

This would mean that it would be very rare that you would be the only one in your category competing for an award. It would also mean that you would be competing directly against other people who have prepared their cars to a similar level. An in addition it would mean that at the average event we would hand out about 5 category awards (we rarely have Mods or karts) so things would go fairly quickly at the end of day and the expenses would be kept in check. I did a quick check online and one can buy printed beer glasses for less than $2 each (!) so we should be able to keep out costs to about $15 per event………… and don’t forget that Tim at Autoworks has volunteered to pay for them anyway (thanks Tim!).

So I’m proposing that at each event we hand out awards for FTD, PAX and Category. This would mean on average we would hand about seven awards in total. I think that at the end of a given day that the timing crew could figure the awards and print off results to hand out to everyone so they could go home with the results in hand. While the timing crew is doing that the rest of us would be picking up the course and cleaning the place up. We should all finish at about the same time and at that point we’d have a short ceremony to hand out the awards and maybe Mello Mel (or someone else with the silky dulcimer tones) would play emcee and hand out the trophies.

Every one gets a shot at an award, each will mean something and it will be as level a playing field as a small region would get.

What say you?

Dave

P.S. – if you love the idea it’s mine, if you think it’s stupid my wife came up with it!
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby RayAR » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:01 pm

Thinking about you latest idea. The only problem I see is a competitor could go home with three glasses so why not Glasses for PAX, FTD and EC Choice and something different for catagory winners. Maybe Keychains or small window stickers, There has to be 1000's of award ideas out there.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:25 am

Dave....great idea and breakdown...addresses all the issues well, is very inclusive of all the drivers, and keeps the ceremony relatively short....those who win multiple glasses, can then have many friends over for a libation...I like it a lot...especially using PAX to make it more of a driver skill award...
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Alex » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:56 am

I really like the category awards idea, and I really like the beer glass idea (A nice, functional award. Trophies and plaques and such are kinda useless in my opinion). It seems to me that we have a good idea going here, good work Dave.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:05 pm

what do you mean useless?.. Judi and I play hide and seek with my Rookie of the Year award from a couple of years ago...she still has not found a place to hide it that I can't find it....lol
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby JoeE » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:34 pm

I think that is a good plan Dave, I like it.

Am I right in thinking that whomever gets the best PAX time will also win one of the categories?
So maybe that makes the PAX award redundant?

Oh, and I really don't think a person can have too many beer glasses...
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:55 pm

Mel Kuipers wrote:what do you mean useless?.. Judi and I play hide and seek with my Roolie of the Year award from a couple of years ago...she still has not found a place to hide it that I can't find it....lol


If I weren't the mature, politically correct, gentleman that I am I might insert a joke here about your hide and seek games and what they entail........ but since I am a mature, politically correct, gentleman I will leave that for someone else. :)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like we might have an awards format. Joe is right that the guy who wins PAX will also win his category and I think we can either give him two glasses or we can figure that in and buy the right number considering that.

Now here is a question for a savvy tech timing guys. can we write a report that will give us these results in a printout at the end of the day to keep figuring and time to a minimum? I think we will need to generate the following -

Overall FTD
Overall PAX
Stock category PAX
Street Touring cat. PAX
Street Prepared cat. PAX
Street Mod cat. PAX
Prepared cat. Pax
Modified cat. PAX
Kart cat. PAX

I think the existing report may do most or all of this already. What do our timers think?

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby kjohnson » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:13 pm

I'm not sure if the timing software can separate the categories like that, but it does individual classes and I think it would be easy enough to look through the times for the day and figure it out.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Alex » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:30 pm

Sure it does, check out the results from our last event last fall:
http://www.swmtscca.org/index.php?modul ... PAGE_id=35

At the bottom of the page, we already have the best times in each of the broad categories we are talking about broken out. The only thing that we haven't done is determine the category winners based on PAX, but I would think that if we can do it on raw time we should be able to do it on PAX fairly easily.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby kjohnson » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:36 am

Nice!
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:39 pm

so Dave, will you paint the trailer you schlepp the glasses to events in chrome orange also?..maybe put a flame on the side?...with PBR stickers?
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby kjohnson » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:55 am

If he needs a trailer to haul 9 glasses in, I'm a little worried. My kitchen cabinet is not that big.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Alex » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:27 am

kjohnson wrote:If he needs a trailer to haul 9 glasses in, I'm a little worried. My kitchen cabinet is not that big.


What are you planning on winning one of them?

You wouldd have to keep your crank pulley on for a whole lap to pull that off you know :p
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby kjohnson » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:11 am

Alex wrote:
kjohnson wrote:If he needs a trailer to haul 9 glasses in, I'm a little worried. My kitchen cabinet is not that big.


What are you planning on winning one of them?

You wouldd have to keep your crank pulley on for a whole lap to pull that off you know :p

It's good to have goals.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby mdlfCRXs » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:55 am

And so the trash talk of 2011 begins. It should be an interesting year. To make it more interesting we could have a collectible glass series, like say different "animal beer" heads engraved on each glass.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:49 pm

my partner had another idea for awards---use stickers like the college football players wear on their helmets...these could them be displayed in such a fashion that would make the others drivers jealous on the grid...or instead of as awards, we could have stickers for each event, thereby showing who shows up the most often...
oh, and for the record, I have lots of cupboard space....Jack
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby RayAR » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:40 pm

Mel Kuipers wrote:my partner had another idea for awards---use stickers like the college football players wear on their helmets...these could them be displayed in such a fashion that would make the others drivers jealous on the grid...or instead of as awards, we could have stickers for each event, thereby showing who shows up the most often...
oh, and for the record, I have lots of cupboard space....Jack


Thats funny because I was thinking the same thing except display them on the vehicle like WWII pilots used to display kills on thier planes. The Helmet idea is better though, then you don't need to scrape them off your side windows when you sell the car. On a related note, I still have a FREE full face helmet and Bag but it is out of date for autocross. Make a good helmet for motorbiking. No face shield but what can you expect for free?

I think Glasses are a great idea but was thinking it might be nice to have some variety because one driver could potentially walk away with 3 glasses, Catagory, PAX and FTD. Honestly the winners of PAX and FTD will also probably win thier Catagory but IMHO, those are the 2 most important awards. My cupboards are also Jamb packed with Glasses so I have no room but I would need to win one before I worry about that. :(
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby WD40 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:58 pm

Mel Kuipers wrote:my partner had another idea for awards---use stickers like the college football players wear on their helmets

RayAR wrote:Thats funny because I was thinking the same thing except display them on the vehicle like WWII pilots used to display kills on thier planes.

No need for stickers, use magnets! :mrgreen:
Region 105 used to hand them out at their events.
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:16 pm

WD40 wrote:
Mel Kuipers wrote:my partner had another idea for awards---use stickers like the college football players wear on their helmets

RayAR wrote:Thats funny because I was thinking the same thing except display them on the vehicle like WWII pilots used to display kills on thier planes.

No need for stickers, use magnets! :mrgreen:
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Do they make fiberglass magnets? If not then stuff would just fall to the ground and I would be sad.

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby JoeE » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:23 pm

Mel Kuipers wrote:my partner had another idea for awards---use stickers like the college football players wear on their helmets...these could then be displayed in such a fashion that would make the others drivers jealous on the grid

Kill stickers, I like it.

DaveMk1 wrote:Do they make fiberglass magnets? If not then stuff would just fall to the ground and I would be sad.

Don't worry, I have taken care of that. I did you a favor and went into your storage unit and glued some 1/2" thick steel plates in your doors. Now you can use magnetic numbers and stickers and stuff.
You don't have to thank me, just fill my beer glass with IPA.
Joe
1991 911 grey goober

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RayAR
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby RayAR » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:09 pm

DaveMk1 wrote:Do they make fiberglass magnets? If not then stuff would just fall to the ground and I would be sad.

Dave


You know how to take a good idea and blow it all to hell. I was really liking the magnet idea
1990 Mazda Miata. Most fun you can have with only 116 HP!!!!!!

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DaveMk1
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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby DaveMk1 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:50 pm

RayAR wrote:
DaveMk1 wrote:Do they make fiberglass magnets? If not then stuff would just fall to the ground and I would be sad.

Dave


You know how to take a good idea and blow it all to hell. I was really liking the magnet idea


I had a guy who shall remain nameless ask me why I used stick on numbers on the Birkin. I told him the body was aluminum and he told me, with a very straight face, that I should get aluminum magnets. He wasn't joking.

How does one handle that?

dave
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Now on a diet and working on adding just a bit of muscle.

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Re: Deep thoughts 2011.

Postby Mel Kuipers » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:03 am

you say, oh yes, I saw them one time....only I thot they were sheet rock screws....
Mel Kuipers


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